Curse

NerfHerder · Mar 27, 2011, 12:45 PM // 12:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine

Pros:
-DwG, if you look at it, is insane damage. 5e, 5s and insane damage, almost no profession has a similar skill.
-It caused armbraces to drop (this is a greed argument some people used)
-It's a gimmick faceroll that requires no skill outside of 1-1-1-1...

Cons:
-It allows small time players to finish DoA for their HoM/a little bit of money
-Greed is not a valid argument.
-Trenchway is a faceroll as well once you know what you're doing.

Your Pros are Cons and your Cons are Pros.

PvX wiki has it right. Notice DwG isnt even considered a SC, its just a team build. How can anyone think a regular team build is OP but SCs are not? Besides, DwG is harmless. If 8 DwG Rts could SC a dungeon, then yeah, there would be a problem. But to my knowledge such an OP skill doesnt exist.

Dami · Mar 27, 2011, 01:38 PM // 13:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine

This thread isn't about nerfing it because of DoA-reasons. Tbh, I did 1 DwG FR NM like last July, and I was like "nop, never again", because it's so horrible. Just to point it out to you: DwG DoA is not profitable. 1h20-1h45 (I think) for a measly 30k on gems. If you run frostway and don't fail (lol) you'll be in there about the same time, only you get about 60k.

Also, if I may give you an advise, don't try it, it's really boring, dull and not worth your time.

Then why nerf it and go to the bother of complaining about it?

The Only Warrior · Mar 27, 2011, 01:47 PM // 13:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squishy ftw

Nerf SY and SF, then we can talk about DwG.

Would DwG even still be used for it if there was no Imbagon to offer silly amounts of protection?

if you ever say nerf SY again im gonna rip your face off and melt it in acid, not only is it the only reason to ever play a paragon(besides TNtF), its a PvE skill, and a Party-defence skill for warrior (which have what 3?). Secondly the best way to fix DwG should be obvious, increase En cost to 10. Problem solved, Rits can still use it, NM DoA dies and Frostway remains. Armbrace prices rises 2e and the Noobs clear out of DoA so i can finally use pugs again.

Swingline · Mar 27, 2011, 02:05 PM // 14:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Only Warrior

if you ever say nerf SY again im gonna rip your face off and melt it in acid, not only is it the only reason to ever play a paragon(besides TNtF), its a PvE skill, and a Party-defence skill for warrior (which have what 3?). Secondly the best way to fix DwG should be obvious, increase En cost to 10. Problem solved, Rits can still use it, NM DoA dies and Frostway remains. Armbrace prices rises 2e and the Noobs clear out of DoA so i can finally use pugs again.

Thats why paragon needs some ANet love. 2 skills shouldn't be your reason for playing a profession and increasing e cost to 10 wont stop the caster professions.

WarcryOfTruth · Mar 27, 2011, 02:58 PM // 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Only Warrior

if you ever say nerf SY again im gonna rip your face off and melt it in acid

Nerf SY, because there are other ways to play a Paragon, I have played about 4,000 hours on mine and haven't used Save Yourselves on his bar in about 2 years. So please nerf it, but this is off topic, just saying.

Gabs88 · Mar 27, 2011, 03:32 PM // 15:32

Yeah, I did DoA before any of the PVE skills apart from the then elite LB signet was out. And back then, it was RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing hellish. And while I dont like the way it's deteriorated at this point, I dont want it nerfed either because I really like how any class is currently accepted in to DoA NM instead of the way it was before with feast of corruption \ SS spikes and 5 HP BiP shit.

And the problem here is not DwG, DWG can be subbed for anything, I can be subbed for esurge and mesmer skills it can be subbed for VoR and SS or it can be subbed for searing flames or whatever else. The problem is that the defence of the groups has gotten good enough to handle DoA with ease, what before requires super carefull pulling and that would wipe groups in a matter of a secound or two is now something you just rush straight in to with no defence. I dont find it any better that shadowform sins are capable of easely tanking all the mobs then I do the fact that you can kill everything spamming DWG. But locking all but the eliteist 24\7 speedclear guilds out of DoA again like it was a few years back isent gonna happen unless you nerf imbagons, ER elementalists and ST prots. Defencively groups have gotten far enough for DoA to be a cakewalk and I dont see why anyone would want to nerf the way to do it in 2h just to see people do it in 2h30 mins.

Bright Star Shine · Mar 27, 2011, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dami

Then why nerf it and go to the bother of complaining about it?

if you bothered reading the thread, you would have found my trouble with DwG a couple pages back. it makes every other PBAoE elite skill look ridiculous and it's just insanely overpowered.

5e 3/4c 5r for 100+ dmg IN THE AREA, taht's just ridiculous.

Swingline · Mar 27, 2011, 08:40 PM // 20:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine

if you bothered reading the thread, you would have found my trouble with DwG a couple pages back. it makes every other PBAoE elite skill look ridiculous and it's just insanely overpowered.

5e 3/4c 5r for 100+ dmg IN THE AREA, taht's just ridiculous.

dont forget it gives other spells armor pen too. XD

I believe the original function was to hold it, cast a few spells and then drop it for big dmg.

Bright Star Shine · Mar 27, 2011, 10:24 PM // 22:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swingline

dont forget it gives other spells armor pen too. XD

I believe the original function was to hold it, cast a few spells and then drop it for big dmg.

Make it 10e and like 12-20s recharge and you will have exactly that usage.

Eowin Of Rohan · Mar 28, 2011, 10:57 AM // 10:57

Quote:

People just care too much about speed. While I understand, that as a game is played, areas should become easier and easier, and take less and less time, there should be limit. While DwG is by no means fast compared to balanced, it reduces the difficulty to a level of lolface. But, the only issue I have with it, if at all really, is what it does to the area. There's no thinking involved anymore there. You can have half a brain and still beat it, that to me is the problem. I've been playing GW as long as I have because of the amount of thinking that I have to do. I don't WANT to go into any area, whether its an area like Underworld, where I basically live, or a place like Domain of Anguish, that I dislike going to, and EXPECT it to be easy. I enjoy the challenge these areas have, and am disgusted by how sad it has gotten regarding clearing them. But meh, I guess that's just how it happens.

tl;dr, give DwG Exhaustion, then it will be somewhat like a PBAoE Obsidian Flame. Strong, but use too much and you'll be hurting.

I agree with you !

And I like the Exhaustion idea, didn't think about it and would be easier to implement than what I explained in my first message.

Quote:

Guess you missed the bright red letters READ FIRST!
...

Did you read any of my previous messages?

Anyway, if a modetator thinks like you and closes this thread, I have no problem with that :

Quote:

To conclude, I just thought DwG would be nerfed sooner or later because of the "jurisprudence" of Ursan and so many other builds which made elite areas or farms too easy (RoJ, 600, ...). What I call "sooner or later" could be tomorow as well as in 2014.
My idea was to explain that most obvious ways of nerf arn't a good idea imho, and how the skill could be changed in order to avoid any impact on it's "fair" use and still stop the DoA thing.

But as Bellatrixa pointed out, DwG isn't an "ursan2" since ursan was used everywhere, so I may never be nerfed.

Secondly, there is no truth about the arguments why DwG in DoA is good or bad, but only opinions. We could go on discussing for years.
That's why opening that thread was maybe a mistake, cause I should have known ppl were gonna explain why they thing there's nothing to be done about DwG in DoA.

Quote:

if you bothered reading the thread

That's the issue which is always encountered in that kind of discussion. Once there are more than 5 messages, people start coming and repeating arguments which have already been replied, because they don't read thread and/or don't understand what has already been written.

That's why closing this thread would be a good idea. So we still have my change idea readable here, some arguments, some other viable change ideas (Bright Star Shine's one or WarcryOfTruth's one) ... and avoid some long discussion which leads nowhere.

yum · Mar 28, 2011, 07:48 PM // 19:48

How about increasing the AI of mobs?

I have some suggestions that can make DoA impossible without buffing or nerfing anything

Bright Star Shine · Mar 29, 2011, 02:42 PM // 14:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by NerfHerder

Your Pros are Cons and your Cons are Pros.

PvX wiki has it right. Notice DwG isnt even considered a SC, its just a team build. How can anyone think a regular team build is OP but SCs are not? Besides, DwG is harmless. If 8 DwG Rts could SC a dungeon, then yeah, there would be a problem. But to my knowledge such an OP skill doesnt exist.

(I only noticed this post now, so reply is a bit late^^)

No, those are not my pro's and cons, those are the pro's and cons given by people in the previous thread. In fact, in my opinion there is no con to nerfing the skill, because it's so broken. I'm all pro, so if they were mine, i wouldn't have posted cons^^ Also, I would never say trenchway is a faceroll, now would I?